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Surfing the INternet!
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1994-10-15
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Tuesday, 13 September 1994 11:56:12 PM
aus.org.efa Item
From: Rosie Cross <rx1@sydgate.apana.org.au>,internet
Subject: Surfing the INternet!
To: aus.org.efa
Also available in 21C. Published Melbourne, Australia.
Available everywhere!...
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Surfing the Internet
aired April 3, 94
Radio Eye, Sunday Night on Radio National
Produced and written by Rosie Cross,
McKenize Wark.
rx1@sydgate.apana.org.au
mwark@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au
========================================================
Transcription..
Bruce Sterling:
Now im pulling down, im getting of my internet uplink
-alright, garbage characters, no carrier, OK!!!
Elise Mathieson:
I usually log on and check my mail, so I am working in
Minesota and take my coffee breaks in California.
Lead/Ken Wark:
Every morning I turn on my computer and log on to the
Internet, usually I just check my electronic mail but
sometimes if i feel like it I go surfing in all the weird
and wonderful data thats out there, being passed around
the thousands of computers that the Internet joins together
__ all around the world.
Bruce Sterling:
Its very difficult to get your bearings in the world of
cuberspace it really is a place of fun house mirrors
It was rough today (Elise) Your telling me (Ken)
Ken Wark:/Script
The Internet is a way of getting information on just about
anything! If you wanna find out something on particle physics
or something about trout fishing ___ its out there ___ and
with about half a days training you can go out there and
find it for yourself. Or you can just surf you can paddle
about in pools of data looking for the next wave in cool
information.
Bruce Sterling:
People are always asking me. Gee, Mr Sterling whats this
cyberpunk thing all about. Now I can tell them look get
on the gopher at pic.com ok, they got a mega byte of
stuff there, you read that, if you don;t know what
cyberpunk is after that YOU'RE BRAIN DEAD OK.!! tell them
to turn off the oxygen
Ken Wark:/Script
Another neat thing about the Internet is that it connects
you with an amazing amount of cool people, whether your
interested in the temple dancing of Southern India, or
the science of super computing or S&M sex you can find
people on the Internet who are into such things too.
Elise Mathieson:
There's so much information out there its like walking into
Ali Baba's treasure cave. You know there's treasure chests
of jewels and diamonds lying all over the floor, and you
don;t even know which one to open first.
Robert David Steele:
You know there's an information war going on in Asia, and
Japan is to the North, Australia is to the South and
Lee Kwan U (sp) is sitting in Sigapore laughing his head off.
Ken Wark:/Script
Once you've been surfing for awhile, you meet the people
who's Silicon Beach it is. Here are some of the voices
from the endless wave of the Internet.
Elise Mathieson:
I have known people to fall in love over the Internet without
ever seeing anyone's faces.
John Perry Barlow:
Cyberspace has really been with us ever since Alexander
Graham Bell and his assistant Watson had a meeting back
there in 1876.
Ken Wark:Script/Intro>
To begin with what does it feel like to be out there surfing
on the internet.
Elise Mathieson:
Well one of the things that works well for me is specific to
my situation. I'm hearing impaired and its something that's
been happening to me as an adult, that seems to be getting
worse. I wear a hearing aid but when I'm on the Internet
everything is in print and I hear print just fine, its not
a problem. I've always been a big reader and I really like
having all the words on the screen, I don't miss anything
in the conversation, I can talk to anybody in a conversation
or 1 to 1 and I'm not disadvantaged__ which is a little
different from daily life.
Ken Wark:
Elise Mathieson likes to hang out in places called Muses.
Elise Mathieson:
Well its really hard to explain, its like living in a story
book. You log on and your a character in a story, and you
walk around and talk to other people who are logged on
from other places, who are characters in a story, and one of
the neat things there was that I happened to run into a bunch
of other people who were deaf. One was a young woman from
England, about 14, who had just found a muse and it was really
neat cos we spent sometime chatting about what it was like for
us. I'm 33 and my hearing impairment has come in my adult life
and it was neat talking to somebody who had a different
experience in a different place. And yet we met in this
electronic fantasy world that comes out of a machine at MIT
in Boston....its funny,. there was a cartoon over here in the
New Yorker that has 2 dogs sitting at a keyboard,. 1 of the
dogs says to the other, 'its great on the Internet nobody
knows you're a dog'.
Ken Wark:
With all these people and dogs hanging out on the Internet
board walk communicating for the most part in pure written
text do they ever come together as a community or is it just
a bunch of random atoms colliding with each other.
John Perry Barlow:
Community really arises to a large xtent in response to
shared adversity, u know. Unless you count unix as shared
adversity (laughs) which I certainly do,. But,. it ain't
no Armish barn raising in there, not yet. It seems like you
have a lot of the things that go in a small town, a lot of
those things are purely imaginery. So much depends on
inter relatedness based on necessity in a small town (u know)__
you need each other. In Cybersapce you don;t really need each
other, its not like a life or death matter, and there aren;t
real good ways to communicate emotional information or
cultural information. There are just a lot of things that are
missing at the moment and its gunna take awhile for them
to emerge.
Elise Mathieson:
I have a bunch of friends who call themselves netcruisers
they roam around and they find neat things and tell other
people about them.
Ken Wark:/Script
You can dip into the Internet to play or some people go there
to work. Some people don;t know there's much of a difference
between work and play on the Internet when what you do with your
life is live and breath information. Here;s Cyberpunk author
Bruce Sterling..
Bruce Sterling:
Most days I do very little. I get up and take my kid to the
local scholastic gulag, and I read the tonnage of specialized
magazines that shows up in the house__security management,
interactive entertainment design, nature, science, various other
weird meterological stuff__maybe I mozieee down to the university
and pick out a few odd 19th century tomes, then I go hang out
at the local cool bookstore and see if any bizarre post
modernist tattoo mags have arrived. Then I'll come home and
log on to my Internet account and deal with the megabyte of
fan mail, various electronic publications I get every week
and if I see something that's really interesting, I generally
cut and paste it out and fax/modem it to 20/30 other people--
just sort of keeping them up to date. Then I'll go in and hang
out with the usual magazine publishers on the WELL. The boing
boing conference. The Whole Earth Review conference. I'm pretty
personally tied with these people now and it's like a giant
electronic Bay Area Coffee Shop, we're all sitting there
busily trading ideas and puffing one another basically. Then
I;ll come and log off and try and save some of my mail and
deal with it and throw the rest in the trash and try not to
be crushed under my toppling heap of data here. And then possibly
I might write something.
Ken Wark:/Script
Aust, author Dale Spender also finds she spends much of her time
on the Internet, and its changed the way she feels about being
a writer.
Dale Spender:
Whereas I used to get into bed at night about 11o'c and read
books, what I tend to do now is about half past 10/11o'c I
go turn on my computer and get on the nets. Ive got one
particular friend with whom I'm editing an International
Data Base and because we send each other E-mail messages, just
about every night, I never feel as though I have lost contact.
And its this sort of fun thing that replaces my reading books
and browsing through stacks in libraries, and its a real
intellectual smorgasboard. Particularly for people who have
been about information quests and information production,
suddenly seeing on the women's studies conference and womens
studies bulletin board that there are 46 new messages/items.
And am I going to be let myself go into them and find out
whats there or am I going to be disciplined and just do my
37 new E-mail messages, and go through some of those. But
its this sense that there___sitting there in my study is
access to the information of the world.
Ken Wark:
But will the Internet ever become a mass medium or will it remain
the private beach of an expanding but elite information class?
Bruce Sterling:
I wanna be able to see things I have no business seeing and
sort of think about them., I don;t want my life or thoughts
to be regimented. I'm a person with a very hungry imagination
and my imagination needs constant feeding, from the least
likely sources. And you find those sources on the Internet
and when I can help other people find them, its not only in my
personal interest but in a funny way my class interest.There
are lots of people like me actually, if you go out and look
around at the number of people who are earning their livings
in the U.S just by sitting in front of their computer terminals
all day. There's something like 12 million of us, and we
are self employed,. we don';t work for IBM or anything else.
These group of people as a group are not very group aware
but I think they are going to become that way. Especially
more so as the old industrial structures of life time employment
and so forth dies out.
Dale Spender:
Information is the wealth generator of the future, its as
important to think about what we are setting up here as it
was to think about the factory system that was set up in Britain
last century__at the moment its very clear that we are creating
haves and have nots on a grand scale__and I think we have to
see its a form of insider trading that people who know things
are able to use it to gain wealth___and people who don;t are
going to be completely locked out of the discourse of our
society. A lot of Americans have said to me by the year 2000
every body will be connected anyway.And I say 14 million homeless
, and they say oh no not them!!
Ken Wark:
One hears a lot perhaps to much about hackers who illegally
use computer networks including the Internet but perhaps we have
just as much to worry about from the authorities who police it.
Bruce Sterling:
The computer police up to now have been a bit quick on the draw,
at least in the U.S. But you have to draw the line between what
is possible and what has actually occurred. Now if you think
about what could be done by acts of computer intrusion, yeah the
potential is truly frightening. There are possibilities for
Digital Chernobyls on a global scale.
Ken Wark:
On the other hand the Internet has certain design features that
make it rather difficult to centrally control.
John Perry Barlow:
In the case of the Internet, who is the service provider who can
you go to tap an Internet connection, and the answer is you
can't because you know when I send a packet out of my computer
towards yours, it could go anyone of a gizillion different ways
to get there and it would probably take a different route than
the next packet out. I think this technology definitely has
politics and they are anarchistic in nature. But, by the same
token life in the digital world makes it very easy for gov'ts
to monitor you because everytime you make any kind of
financial transaction you smear your finger prints all over
cyberspace and if you fling out a wide enough net (u know)
and just go through a very massive search of all digital data
thats flowing around in the data cloud you can start to assemble
simulacra of people__in their commercial and personal dealings.
Elise Mathieson:
Its great on the Internet nobody knows your a dog
Amy Bruckman:
The Internet is growing at a tremendous rate and this raises
some interesting issues for how this space with so many people
in it is going to be managed. Is it simply the person who
controls the resources, controls the computer or controls
the transmission medium__controls the content__ or do people
have certain rights and I think the kinds of decisions
we make now will have tremendous long term implications for
the future of a medium which is increasingly going to become
part of our daily lives.
Ken Wark:/Script
The Internet is a wonderfully anarchic form of communication
where a lot of the rules are made by consensus between parties
who are there,. But sometimes its hard to agree on what are
acceptable ways of being on the Internet and what are not.
Dale Spender:
Ive heard the word Netiquette used again and again
Elise Mathieson:
Since its a written communication its so much more simultaneously
more distant and more intimate then face to face.
Anna Couey:
How you get to know somebody is by what they say and that
cuts across a lot of social and economic barriers,.
Libby Reid:
People who seem to be female on things like IRC and other network
programs are often given a lof of attention, and that can be
quite enjoyable for some people, for others it can create
quite a problem. That comes into the realms of sexual harrassment
the other thing is for a lot of people to get attention or
sometimes to just find out what its like to be on the other
side, pretend to be a gender that they are not.
Anna Couey:
One of the things with harassment on-line is that I think its
exacerbated in an on-line environment, than it is in the
physical environment and I'm not sure part of that has to do
with the ratio of men to women on-line, but also again I think
it gets back to that disembodiment__because in a way your freer
to interact with people__than you would on the street,. People
are not likely to walk up to you on the street and say do
you wanna talk dirty?? Where they are on-line, the preliminaries
are kinda cut out.
Ken Wark:
So who gets access to this imperfect but functional communications
anarchy?
Geoff Huston:
Our future right now is that of a public information utility, that
increasingly the asset of the network is the information resources
that populate it, so in some ways what we are is a massive
computerized information resource for this country. As well as
that I suppose there is a valuable role within the research
domain itself these days__research is a collaborative effort__
and increasingly big business. Particularly when you look at
the hard sciences these days, a large amount of experimentation
is never performed physically, we try to model reality as closely
as possible on super computing resources, and ship the results
of that model or that experiment back to the researcher involved.
So communications networks allows a researcher in say Adelaide
to utilize computing and communications facilties in Sydney,
Melbourne, Los Angeles, Boston, Paris and in London.
Dale Spender:
And there certainly were haves and have nots when it came to
print which is one of the reasons we got State Libraries.
When it was recognised that not everybody could purchase
books__the State had an obligation to provide people with
that sort of information. And maybe thats a role that State
libraries should take on in the electronic era, that they
have to provide 500 public computer terminals. We can talk
about the issue of the fact that we are going to become
consumers of white male californian culture in a very short
space of time.
Ken Wark:/Script
But can the Internet ever be a mass medium, how many surfers
really wanna paddle into the digital sunset, is it all
California Dreamin'?
Bruce Sterling:
I think its absurd to think that everybody on the planet is
goin to want to do the sort of things that are done on the
Internet. I mean everybody on the planet probably does want to
watch TV. Even people in Tibet like to watch Madonna, I don't
understand why that is__but its true. So I don;t think
your average Yak herder with a satellite dish is really gunna
wanna sit down and punch deck all day. I think that there will
likely be entertainment media that uses some of the same
packet switching technology __ but I think there is also likely
to be a kind of International research and eductaional network
thats used basically for scholastic activity and I think thats
gonna be the Internet. And I don;t think thats going to be owned
by Ted Turner, or have a board of directors or president. I think
the Internet will remain as a common good.
Dale Spender:
With print there was a creation of a mass reading public and
some people have referred to it as the democratization of reading,
that up until books, we had only a few people in society who
could read. They generally did so from the pulpit and it
was called readin the lesson for the week,. Then suddenly there's
print there's book and everybody gets to learn to read__what we
have to realize is that everybody is going to get the chance
to become an author in a way the computer heralds the
deomcratization of authorship and once everybody can do it,
once theres no distinct individual effort what does copyright
mean anyway?
Ken Wark:
Or will the Internet perhaps have other uses?? Robert David
Steele is a civilian intelligence officer with the U.S Marine
Intelligence Service..
Robert David Steele:
My Colonel the Director of the Marine Corps Intelligence Centre
and I the Senior Civilian spent 10Mill$ on a classified information
handling system only to turn it on and find out that the CIA
databases on the 3rd world were empty. And at that point I went
looking for and discovered open sources. What we are finding is
that the various pipelines__the secrecy compartments are counter-
productive__.The Internet is breaking down the barriers in the
information continuum in the U.S. I talk about how we have an
information continuum, that is a virtual intelligence community;
except that each sector K3.12, the universities, libraries,
business,.media,the private investigators and so on/.There is
an iron curtain between each sector__there is a bamboo curtain
between each institution and each sector___and there is a
plastic curtain between each individual and each sector. And
what the Internet does is blows holes through those curtains.
There are a number of people in universities, researchers and
think tanks, business' and newspapers etc who have absolutely
1st class information, and I include foreign gov'ts. For instance
the Australian gov't have absolutely 1st class information about
Papua New Guinea, a place where marines might have to go one day.
It makes a lot of sense to me for us to xchange information
with Aust. or indeed Papua New Guinea_about what we call
encyclopedic intelligence___the ports, the air fields, just
basic unclassified stuff. It;s in the strategic interest of
every country to harness its information contiuum, and the Internet
is an absolutely vital element of that National strategy,.
Bruce Sterling:
Computer communications has turned out to be a far more social
influential thing than the space program ever was.
Ken Wark:
On a more mundane level are the polices we have in Australia
for the development of the Internet adequate> Are we keeping
up with our rivals for the Clever Country tag?
Geoff Huston:
Back in around 1987/88 the need for a specialist data communications
network was evident to the sector. What we were seeing is that
our investment in computing was quite xtensive. But when we
looked overseas what we saw was not only were similar investments
being made but they were being productively linked together
with data networks. At that stage the U.S APAR/Internet was
well under way, providing amazing connectivity amongst the uni
and research community in the U.S. When we look here in Aust
we spent some time trying to find if there was a publically
available facility that we could use that could provide
similar functionality both domestically within Aust and also
to link us with those computing and communication projects
going on overseas. What we found was that plainly and simply
there was nothing in the public domain. So after some soul
searching the only answer came through, that if we really wanted
this facility, then as universities we had to work together
and build it ourselves from the bottom up.
Dale Spender:
Theres a slogan about us being a clever country and we'll
export intellectual resources but mnade by some people who
have absolutely no idea and knowledge of the way in which
the culture is changing, as we even speak.
Geoff Huston:
Today AARNET connects together some 105,000 computers in Aust
If you contrast that and include our population of some 17.6
million people if you compare that to the U.K the current
academic and research network there _Janet_ links together about
106,000 comps and Germany 110,000 comps, Japan 47,000...
so in some respects we have been far more successful than other
countries in terms of hooking vast numbers of individuals
together, __ so from that metric over the last 3yrs we have
done astonishingly well. he other kind of metric is how well
do we service this community, what kind of bandwidth can we
provide them that actually ships volumes of data around quickly
and efficiently and in that metric I don't think we are doing
as well,.
Robert David Steele:
Part of the problem and I had a long talk with Vince Surf
about this, President of the Internet Society when we were
out at a Internet Conference in San Fransisco, a few months back.
Vince is a man that I greatly admire, he and Bob Kahn(sp??) are
in many ways fathers of the Internet throught the Arpanet.
And unfortuanely they are so beholden to their original concept
of their baby they are not willing to consider applications
or content as new directions, for Internet management. And
so right now the whole focus of the Internet society and its
magnificant working group is on increasing the size of the pipe,.
Unfortunately, all that really does is contribute to the amount
of noise that can flow. One of the things I've been working
on in support of the Vice Presidents NII is to put a content
element into Al Gore's connectivity program. I mean right now
God Bless him, Al Gore is all connectivity and no content.
There is no National knowledge strategy in the U.S
Bruce Sterling:
Al Gore the American Vice President is a cyberpunk,____ I
found that truly hilarious!!
Ken Wark:
For some people the Internet is as much about spirit as it
is politics.
John Perry Barlow:
The EFF was started because Mitch Kapor (who wrote Lotus 1.2.3)
and I realized that people were moving into this environment
at a very rapid rate. Like all new frontier areas the prevailing
codes of ethics and law and social interaction and property
management were not worked out__and the gov't was behaving as
those all the rules that had worked perfectly well for the
physical world were going to work for the virtual world.
We wanted to see the gov't stay the hell out til something
like a social contract had been developed. Most of the
current inhabitants of the net are people who have very little
awareness or interest in the type of hippy mysticism I bring
to bear__its mostly computer jocks at this point. Its seems
kinda obvious to me that if your in a place where there's
no physical substance where its all immateriality___ that you
can;t miss the resemblance to happen. You can't miss the
relationship to that place that people have always been trying
to go__which is composed entirely of spirit and mind. Cos thats
what its all about___now is the flesh become word..
Ken Wark:
WE NO LONGER HAVE ORIGINS WE HAVE TERMINALS.
end
Copyright Wark & Cross 1994.
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From: rx1@sydgate.apana.org.au (Rosie Cross)
Newsgroups: aus.org.efa
Subject: Surfing the INternet!
Date: 13 Sep 1994 23:56:12 GMT
Organization: Sydney APANA News Server
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